Adam Hempenstall, How To Close More Clients At Higher Prices While Eliminating Scope Creep

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00:00
welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast
00:03
where we go behind the scenes and
00:05
uncover the tactics and strategies top
00:07
entrepreneurs are using to make more
00:09
sales dominate their markets and how you
00:12
can get those same results here is your
00:14
host Dave Woodward well welcome back
00:18
everybody I’m your host Dave Woodward
00:19
and yes you are listen to funnel hacker
00:21
radio and I’m Way excited today because
00:22
I get questions all the time about
00:25
people who are trying to use click
00:27
funnels as an agency model to go out and
00:30
basically present proposals to people to
00:32
help whether they’re running Facebook
00:34
Ads whether they’re running they’re
00:36
trying to create webinars whether
00:38
they’re trying to create funnels for
00:40
people and I get asked all the time as
00:42
far as well what’s the best thing do I
00:44
just do a proposal how do I send it what
00:46
do I do and that you know what the best
00:47
thing for me to do is to get the person
00:49
who knows proposals better than anyone
00:50
else I know
00:51
and that’s Adam him stall welcome
00:53
welcome welcome Adam glad to have you on
00:55
the show thank you very much for having
00:57
me so Adams the CEO of better proposals
00:59
they specialize in doing exactly that
01:02
and that is helping you basically create
01:03
the proposals that can help you win the
01:05
deal so some of the things we’re gonna
01:07
be talking about today is going to be
01:08
how to actually increase your price how
01:10
to increase the conversion on your
01:12
proposals which is one of the main
01:13
things most people want why you should
01:15
send a proposal and what’s include the
01:18
two things that I’m most excited about
01:19
and that is how to get paid immediately
01:20
and the one thing I know when I was
01:23
consulting that was drove me crazy and
01:25
that was how to avoid scope creep it’s
01:27
like drives me crazy so with all that
01:29
said let’s go just dive right in Adam as
01:32
far as why do people need to send a
01:34
proposal I know it seems kind of basic
01:36
but why no it’s a really good question
01:38
it’s a really good place to start
01:39
actually because a lot of people don’t
01:41
actually want to sit down and write them
01:44
which is the first thing they’re you
01:45
know frankly they’re real painters right
01:47
they take an awful long time and you
01:50
know if you’re probably you know maybe
01:53
you won’t win the job and it seems like
01:54
a wasted effort so a lot of people try
01:56
and leave it leave it leave it and then
01:58
wait till the last minute and only when
02:00
it’s kind of confirmed then may go
02:02
through the effort of actually writing
02:03
the thing up once it’s almost done the
02:06
problem with that method is that
02:07
someone’s already won the job by the
02:09
time you’ve got around to doing that so
02:12
you want to get you
02:13
you know put your best foot forward and
02:15
do it very very quickly so you know I
02:18
always think there’s you want to give
02:21
somebody a decision to make
02:22
that’s that’s really the best way to
02:23
think about it so if you never send a
02:25
proposal what decision are you asking
02:27
them to make you’re asking them to
02:29
create the whole thing in their head
02:30
guess how you want to work and they just
02:33
magically tell you now sometimes that
02:36
happens because that person needs you
02:37
more than you need them and they’ll
02:39
chase you down and all that sort of
02:40
stuff but it’s actually much much easier
02:42
for you to just tell them what you want
02:44
tell them what they need to do next and
02:46
ask them a simple question do you want
02:49
to do it and the easiest way to do that
02:52
is with any proposal well I know that
02:55
especially in today’s world things need
02:57
to be kind of casual a lot of times it’s
02:58
like hey I know a buddy and he’s trying
03:00
to do this and and when they’re actually
03:02
going out trying to win a deal they
03:04
typically don’t even know what they’re
03:05
gonna offer it’s more of a almost more
03:08
of an interview type thing sitting down
03:09
saying you know gosh I can do everything
03:10
I can I can build funnels for you I can
03:12
run your facebook traffic I can actually
03:14
create the webinar on the back end I can
03:15
create all these things how does and how
03:19
does a person basically fine-tune the
03:20
proposals so that it’s that it’s a
03:23
win-win for the person presenting and at
03:25
the same time the other person who’s
03:27
actually on the other end thinks of
03:29
course I need I need this person yes so
03:32
that’s um that’s a really really good
03:33
point actually and is it we said
03:35
Christos that you had on recently yeah
03:38
just something that you guys were talk
03:39
about questions and yeah I was just
03:40
literally listening to earlier and it
03:42
was really it brings up a really great
03:44
point and that’s the the art of asking
03:47
good questions and you know sometimes
03:49
when we’re talking about proposals and
03:51
things like that people think that you
03:53
eliminate that question part you still
03:56
have to do that you still have to sit
03:57
down with that client you have to listen
03:59
use your ears more than your mouth all
04:00
that kind of stuff and really get to the
04:02
truth of what they actually need what
04:05
they want and you still need to go
04:07
through that discovery phase and only
04:09
once you’ve done that bit then you can
04:11
sit down and you can start to put a
04:12
proposal together that actually makes
04:14
sense to them which in essence if you’re
04:17
talking about that kind of method where
04:20
you it’s a very consultative kind of
04:21
process you’re actually just documenting
04:24
an action plan and that’s that’s really
04:27
all a proposal should be it’s just kind
04:30
of an action plan of the process that
04:32
you both came up with together I love
04:35
that idea well let’s talk about one of
04:38
the things they needed so what’s your
04:39
mission stan is the things they need to
04:40
include in the proposal it’s more of the
04:42
action plan of what its gonna take to
04:44
actually make this Inc Act is that
04:45
correct yeah I mean it start to finish
04:47
isn’t it so you know one of the things I
04:50
like to say to people is that we have
04:52
the the benefit of having you know a
04:56
huge amount of data that we can draw
04:58
upon to try and help people actually
05:00
close more deals and we know that the
05:03
two pages that get read the most are the
05:06
first page of text so typically an
05:09
introduction or an executive summary or
05:11
something of a similar nature and the
05:13
price page so you know you kind of want
05:16
to write your proposal in like two
05:17
layers so the first layer is the surface
05:20
level and that’s the intro and the price
05:24
so if they read nothing else what would
05:26
happen like if they just read those two
05:29
things
05:30
have you given across a good enough you
05:34
know good enough impression and then
05:36
everything else just adds to that and
05:38
supports those those arguments but it’s
05:41
really just about asking those great
05:42
questions and you know using that
05:45
executive summary or that introduction
05:46
to really hammer home with the real
05:48
reason why they’re trying to do this so
05:51
yes they want more leads into their
05:53
business if you’re going to build a
05:54
funnel for them do the webinar thing
05:56
whatever you know whatever the chosen
05:59
method is but what’s the real reason
06:01
that they actually want to do that
06:03
and that’s I think a very hard thing for
06:06
people to do but when you really
06:09
discover what that actually is it
06:11
changes everything and it makes the
06:13
whole proposal writing thing just of
06:15
just a formality and a foregone
06:18
conclusion of course they’re gonna work
06:19
with you because you’re probably the
06:21
only one that’s ever understood them I
06:24
totally agree on that I think that’s the
06:26
honest truth well tell me then the hard
06:30
part for obviously people is the amount
06:32
of time it takes for proposals and the
06:34
other issue they deal with is how many
06:36
these are am I gonna win so how does
06:38
what you guys do and teach and work with
06:41
how does it actually help them basically
06:43
win more or convert more to and at the
06:46
same time at higher prices sure okay
06:49
other questions at one okay I know I
06:51
just that’s all right slow it down
06:56
but let’s go on just conversion how do
06:58
you increase conversions on your
06:59
proposals increasing conversions so the
07:02
first thing you want to do is send it
07:03
quickly that’s that’s the the quickest
07:07
way to lose a job or a potential job at
07:10
that point is to just wait and the
07:12
longer you leave it from that moment of
07:14
I mean think about this either in a
07:17
meeting or a discovery session you know
07:20
being on the phone or in person when
07:23
somebody says great that’s amazing can
07:26
you send me a proposal that moment right
07:28
there is the most excited they are ever
07:31
going to be and they’re all is also the
07:32
most like this is dealing with you going
07:40
corporate level that it just does sort
07:42
of start to apply slightly less but if
07:44
you’re dealing with small businesses
07:45
that is literally the truth the closest
07:48
you’re going to get to get money out of
07:49
anybody is that moment so if you leave
07:52
it five days before you put a proposal
07:54
in front of them do not expect them to
07:55
be as excited as they were in that
07:57
moment so the first the easiest thing
08:01
you can do to increase conversions is
08:03
just send the damn proposal quicker I
08:05
mean that’s that’s one thing you can do
08:08
the second thing I’ve kind of already
08:09
mentioned is getting you know improving
08:12
your questioning
08:13
so really understand exactly what it is
08:15
they’re trying to do and then you know
08:17
in all this I mean look you know this is
08:19
a smart audience use the same tricks and
08:23
skills you have as a copywriter to you
08:27
write good copy to your person you’re
08:32
sending your proposal to you know you
08:34
still need a headline you still need to
08:35
cook them in you still need to do all
08:37
that stuff it’s not you’re not off
08:39
you’re not off the hook just cuz you’re
08:41
sending a proposal to them and they like
08:42
you you still have to win them over and
08:44
the job isn’t done just because you know
08:47
you had a beer together or you had a
08:48
great conversation so you still need to
08:51
do that bit so making sure you’re
08:53
writing a really
08:54
great introduction and hitting on those
08:56
major points that they actually want to
08:58
achieve it’s probably the single biggest
09:00
thing that you can do and sending it
09:02
quicker they’re they’re the two easiest
09:04
fixes I love it well let’s talk more
09:06
than about how do you how do proposals
09:09
help you actually increase your prices
09:12
well I kind of touched on it earlier but
09:15
actually giving them something to say
09:17
yes to that’s you actually make it very
09:20
very easy for them I mean if you think
09:22
about your day me I know that I get
09:23
somewhere in excess of 500 email a day
09:25
and a good chunk of that I’m supposed to
09:27
apply it so apparently so you know we’re
09:30
all busy it’s my point we’re all busy
09:32
and you the conversation you’re having
09:35
with somebody about this potential deal
09:38
or the work that you’re going to do with
09:39
them it’s just one of millions of things
09:41
that’s going on in their lives so making
09:42
it easy for them is probably the single
09:46
biggest thing you can do and you know
09:49
often when you’re trying to write a
09:51
proposal in something like Word or
09:52
InDesign or you know any other method or
09:55
worse yet just kind of sending an email
09:57
and hoping for the best you’re actually
10:00
asking them to do a hell of a lot you’re
10:02
asking them to figure out what your
10:03
sales process is you’re asking them to
10:05
you know maybe print out something
10:07
cyanea take a picture of their signature
10:10
on the order form or whatever it is all
10:13
of that stuff I know that sort of going
10:14
a little bit old-school but that’s
10:16
actually a pain for somebody that’s
10:19
going to slow a deal down and it may be
10:21
in some cases that actually might be the
10:22
annoying thing that stops you getting it
10:24
because something else comes up and then
10:26
they pass the project off so it it’s
10:29
amazing how many times you can lose a
10:31
deal just over something so so silly
10:34
just as actually making the sales
10:36
process difficult so one of the things
10:38
that’s built into two better proposals
10:40
is the the software we’ve created is
10:43
digital signatures so they’re legal in
10:44
you know just about everywhere in the
10:46
world and you know you just literally
10:50
ask your customer to type their name in
10:52
and press the button that’s it done very
10:55
it’s yes it’s completely legal and
10:58
obviously you’re making it really really
11:00
easy for them and you know that’s the
11:02
that’s the that’s the name of the game
11:04
really well the one thing I’m most
11:06
fascinated about and that’s a
11:08
in scope creep what’s it because I’ve I
11:11
worked I had my own agency I worked with
11:14
clients in the past and you spend all
11:17
this time you like you know I know I can
11:18
help you that and all of a sudden you’ve
11:21
you think you’re helping them out but
11:23
what’s actually happened is I’ve had the
11:25
experience where I thought himself in
11:26
the mountain I doing all this stuff then
11:28
the scope crept way I would spend so
11:31
much more time I wasn’t getting paid I
11:32
was frustrated and then they didn’t feel
11:34
like they have to got what they were
11:35
gonna get for free from me and I was
11:37
like I was doing that for free so how do
11:40
you how do you help people avoid scope
11:42
creep well the first thing is actually
11:45
don’t give them extra stuff don’t
11:51
actually promise it I think that’s the
11:54
worst thing that people do is they they
11:56
promise extra stuff in the hope that
11:57
they’re gonna that’s gonna be the thing
11:59
that wins them the job I mean you know
12:01
spoiler if the free stuff the free stuff
12:05
won’t help you if the if the core of the
12:07
project isn’t enough to win them over
12:10
there no amount of extra freebies
12:13
they’re gonna do it it’s it’s just not
12:15
gonna be a deciding factor it’s always
12:18
gonna be something else it’s gonna be
12:20
you know the the proof that you provided
12:23
it’s gonna be your testimony or your
12:24
case studies how you’ve related to them
12:27
you know your positioning it’s gonna be
12:29
all that stuff that makes the difference
12:30
with you getting the job not the extra
12:32
freebies you’ve chucked in and also it
12:34
lowers your value massively massively
12:37
because if you’re prepared to you know I
12:40
know in the marketing world it’s easy to
12:41
sort of slap massive price tags on
12:43
things and say hey you get this as you
12:45
know free if you if you go ahead quicker
12:46
or or something to that effect but what
12:49
actually does especially in the service
12:50
business world is is it lowers your
12:52
value massively because they’re almost
12:54
never paying full whack for the for the
12:56
original stuff and then you go and shuck
12:57
in a lot of stuff on top of that it just
12:59
thought it just weakens the whole
13:00
proposition and also that stuff you
13:02
can’t charge them for later so my advice
13:05
is that justice is scale the thing bact
13:09
don’t give them that free stuff in the
13:11
first place and just do an amazing job
13:12
of delivering what you actually promised
13:17
them because I mean here’s like a kind
13:20
of a basic way of thinking about it
13:22
he comes along and they won a funnel
13:23
right this is the boat just they just
13:25
want the funnel done for them
13:27
so you quote for that you do it you’ve
13:30
priced it up and delivered a hundred
13:32
percent of that thing but if you said to
13:35
them in the whole sales process oh by
13:36
the way we’ll do this extra thing for
13:38
you as well and then you do that but
13:41
then you know it was a freebie it was
13:43
extra so maybe you did put as much
13:44
effort in and you delivered maybe 70% of
13:48
that well
13:49
you’ve now actually under looked under
13:51
delivered by giving them more stuff so
13:54
you’ve created more work for yourself
13:55
you’ve over-promised and then you’ve
13:57
under delivered on that promise you’d
13:58
have been better off not giving them the
13:59
extra thing in the first place I love
14:01
that I that’s fantastic well last
14:04
question here and that is how do you get
14:05
paid immediately I’m always about
14:07
getting that first check so immediately
14:09
I actually skip one of your questions
14:11
and I didn’t even mean to do it but you
14:13
asked earlier how to get paid more in
14:15
the process oh yes somehow skips over
14:18
their question somehow but attack both
14:20
so how to get paid more it’s really just
14:23
confidence it’s it’s giving them having
14:29
confidence in yourself to charge a
14:30
higher amount is the first thing the
14:33
second thing and this is more relevant
14:36
to your audience than perhaps any other
14:37
that have spoken see but the fact that
14:41
you’re dealing with such logical stuff
14:43
with funnels with open rates we’ve click
14:45
throughs it’s the clues in the title
14:48
funnel you know you can actually
14:49
mathematically work out with a starting
14:52
point number and predicting sort of
14:56
conversions along the way how much money
14:58
somebody’s going to make you can make
15:01
reasonable guesses so use that mass use
15:03
that logic same thing if you sell SEO do
15:07
any sort of pay-per-click work anything
15:09
like that anything where you can
15:10
mathematically draw a conclusion to a
15:13
final number or an ROI and use that in
15:16
your sales I mean it if somebody’s
15:19
saying oh it’s gonna cost ya I don’t
15:21
know thousand dollars for something and
15:23
they provided no backup no ROI
15:27
calculation no no nothing they just like
15:29
it’s gonna cost this and that’s it
15:31
that’s fine that might be good value to
15:34
somebody but
15:35
actually much much easier to get
15:36
two-and-a-half grand which is way more
15:39
than the original thousand if you broke
15:42
it all down for them and gave them a
15:44
logical sort of flow as to how they can
15:47
reach 15,000 in profit now you’re two
15:51
and a half Brown seems really really
15:52
cheap I love that I love selling money
15:54
out of discounts with my favorite things
15:56
to do I think that’s great
16:00
and-and-and how to get paid quicker is
16:02
actually really quite simple and we’ve
16:06
made this even easier with a relatively
16:08
new feature in better proposals is ask
16:10
for the money immediately afterwards and
16:12
give them a really easy way of doing it
16:13
so in in better proposals what we’ve
16:17
actually done in the software is once
16:19
they’ve signed the proposal you can hook
16:23
up your sort of stripe account your
16:25
PayPal anything like that and they can
16:27
immediately pay the deposit there and
16:29
then so there’s none of this like
16:31
chasing people after the deals been
16:35
signed or yes we want to go ahead but
16:37
when there’s none of that it removes all
16:39
the ambiguity you get the deal signed
16:41
and then they immediately pay and you
16:45
know and then the cash is in your
16:47
account you start the process quicker
16:48
they’re on board you could crack on
16:51
you’re more excited they’re more excited
16:53
everything gets done quicker and you
16:55
move on to the next job so it speeds
16:57
everything up from the start and yeah
17:00
it’s it’s working incredibly well it’s
17:03
failing you but a lot of people have
17:04
been testing out saying it’s it’s
17:06
working an absolute treat for them but
17:08
even if you weren’t to use something
17:09
like you know better proposals you can
17:11
still apply that same logic in you know
17:14
providing it you know just providing an
17:17
easy way for them to actually make that
17:20
payment so you know giving them a way to
17:23
pay with a credit card immediately after
17:26
signing or agreeing the proposal is a
17:29
really good buy going about it I love
17:31
that I think that’s that’s one of the
17:33
things people always seem to destruct
17:35
with the most is getting that first
17:36
check and I bet it’s almost like people
17:39
struggle with with the actual sale or
17:41
asking for the sale but once they’ve
17:42
asked to the sale and they get the sale
17:43
the next thing is well now I got
17:45
actually get the check and I think just
17:47
making that as simple as possible for
17:48
you as well
17:48
for them is awesome but the other thing
17:51
as well is you’ve actually just touched
17:53
on it asking for it and yeah isn’t that
17:55
hard thing to do you saying - sir do you
17:58
know what I mean and she’s saying to
18:00
somebody yes and now I want you to put
18:02
your hand in your pocket and give me the
18:04
money that’s a hard thing to do but if
18:07
the Machine did it or if the software
18:09
did it oh it’s just the software we use
18:10
that seems so much more defensible and
18:13
and that’s it’s I think a lot of it
18:17
especially if you know you like a
18:18
freelancer and you know you’re working
18:20
in a computer that the whole time
18:22
actually doing that closing bit you know
18:25
like hello we see on TV or in you know
18:28
these like sales films and stuff like
18:30
that it always seem to do it so so well
18:32
that you try and do it in real life and
18:33
you know you really stupid your looks
18:35
but that’s a hard thing to do and it’s
18:37
something that seasoned pros struggle
18:39
with you know never mind freelancers
18:41
sort of doing it once every three months
18:42
so it’s it’s very much worth trying to
18:45
use the technology that’s around you
18:47
know what be at our stuff be anything it
18:49
doesn’t matter but use that technology
18:51
to try and hide the save almost like
18:54
pass off the job like I’m not the one
18:56
asking for the money the software is so
18:59
just do what it says and everything will
19:00
be great
19:02
close to wrapping things up any other
19:04
advice you want to give to people
19:07
getting proposals out quickly just
19:09
create a process for it create process
19:12
for it get a good template I mean we’ve
19:15
got 43 I think templates all mostly in
19:19
the sort of marketing and sort of tech
19:21
web space all over on our website keep
19:24
is linked in a second but get process
19:27
for it because that’s the bit that’s
19:28
gonna slow you down and and make things
19:32
difficult but yeah there’s this tons of
19:35
them over and over on our website never
19:37
a better proposals do and so is better
19:40
proposals don’t know the best place them
19:42
getting hold of you cuz I’m sure people
19:43
have questions about this kind of stuff
19:44
yeah absolutely so we’ve got a live chat
19:47
system on our website so just go to
19:50
better proposals do and if you have the
19:54
the live chat that’s usually me there
19:56
but if you leave a question I’m more
19:59
than happy to to come back
20:00
but yet type out your question and let
20:05
me know that you wait you heard of us
20:08
from and then I can come back to you
20:10
with with an honest decent answer and
20:12
give you a bit of time I love it well
20:14
Adam thank you so much for your time and
20:16
I’ve get appreciate you addressing a lot
20:18
of these concerns people have less
20:19
freelancers and going out trying to to
20:21
land the deal so I appreciate it I look
20:23
forward to talking to soon and thanks
20:25
again thank you so much for having me
20:27
that kiss thanks for listening to funnel
20:29
hacker radio podcast if you’d like to be
20:30
notified any time we release a new
20:32
episode just subscribe over at Bono
20:34
hacker radio com in addition to that
20:37
we’d love to send you a free gift you
20:39
can find that free gift at funnel hacker
20:41
radio.com forward slash free trial one
20:45
last thing is we love giving away cars
20:47
so if you’d like access to a free dream
20:50
car all you have to do is go to funnel
20:52
hacker radio com forward slash dream car
20:54
and you’ll get all the details thanks
20:57
again for listening

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