Liston Witherill, How “STOR Analysis” Will Improve Your Copy and Conversions

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00:00
welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast
00:03
where we go behind the scenes and
00:05
uncover the tactics and strategies top
00:07
entrepreneurs are using to make more
00:09
sales dominate their market and how you
00:12
can get those same results here is your
00:14
host dave woodward hey everybody welcome
00:18
back to photo hacker radio you’re going
00:19
to love today’s opportunity to listen to
00:21
list and whither all is the digital
00:23
marker and CEO in good fun and I’m
00:26
really excited to actually spend time
00:28
talking listen this is going to be one
00:30
of those topics this is kind of fun
00:32
unique and we’ve kind of before the show
00:35
here we’re kind of talking about some
00:36
different topics and ideas coming up
00:37
with and guys you have to understand
00:39
business a so first of all list and
00:41
welcome to the show I’m super excited
00:42
that you thank you thank you so much i’m
00:45
excited to be here so i love the fact
00:47
that that you declined your CMO position
00:49
to instead pursue your own business and
00:51
also love the fact that you’re an
00:53
environmentalist and hip hop honors i
00:55
think that between environmental and hip
00:57
hop those it got to be two totally
01:00
different ideas and optimism spectrum
01:02
but I think it’ll it will provide a huge
01:04
fun exciting that opportunity expensive
01:05
not talking together well I hope so
01:07
we’re going to test your theory our way
01:10
so let’s go to decide right in this one
01:12
of the things we want to talk to you
01:14
down today let’s just got a lot of
01:16
experience with regards to user reviews
01:18
and improving coffee and conversion I I
01:21
know I kind of go through your violin
01:22
everything else and listen I know you’ve
01:24
got a ton of cars copy goes but I’m
01:26
really serious offence of time focusing
01:28
more on the user reviews I think you
01:30
don’t harmless it’s kind of died under
01:31
them talking a little bit about how
01:33
first of all how are you get your user
01:35
reviews and why is it important yeah
01:38
okay so let me make let me take one step
01:40
back before we get to that because there
01:42
is an important distinction I want to
01:44
make that’ll kind of set the context for
01:46
everybody listening to this so one big
01:50
distinction we make is between copy and
01:52
messaging why is that important because
01:55
a lot of people I think kind of make a
01:58
miscalculation when it comes time to sit
02:00
down and write their entire funnel and
02:03
you know load it up into clickfunnels or
02:05
whatever they’re using they think that
02:07
they’re sitting down to do a creative
02:09
exercise and I would tell you number one
02:12
that’s the wrong
02:13
approach so the difference between copy
02:16
and messaging is messaging is what we
02:18
say those key messages that we use in
02:21
order to communicate to people key
02:24
problems trigger events in their lives
02:26
their dream state how to fix it and copy
02:30
is how we say it right so do we use a
02:33
formal or informal tone of voice do we
02:36
use jargon do we use you know what kind
02:39
of nerdy syntax things like contractions
02:41
or do we use shorter long sentences all
02:44
these kinds of things really communicate
02:46
how we say things and something about
02:49
our personality and our overall brand
02:51
whereas the messaging is really the core
02:54
thing that we’re saying okay so when we
02:57
think about where do those messages come
03:00
from that’s where we get into the user
03:02
review so a couple ideas for you Dave
03:05
anybody listening to this I’m sure
03:08
either has some user reviews that
03:11
they’ve gathered or they have a
03:13
competitor out there who is gathering
03:16
user reviews now why is that important
03:18
right because what we want to do is
03:21
understand what are the things that
03:23
people are thinking and saying about
03:25
their problems solutions and how they
03:28
plan to fix those problems and so
03:31
whether you have user reviews or not is
03:34
not actually that important as long as
03:36
they exist somewhere out there even if
03:39
they’re on your competitors you can get
03:41
a really good sense of what are those
03:42
key messages that people keep saying
03:44
over and over and over again so I want
03:47
to be clear to anybody listening to this
03:49
it’s not imperative that you have user
03:52
reviews it’s just important that user
03:53
reviews in your product or service
03:55
category exists man i love that i really
03:59
appreciate you respect to the
04:00
distinction between coffee and messaging
04:01
i think a lot of people screw that up I
04:04
think again sample ideas far as
04:06
messaging and getting that from the user
04:08
review aspect whether they your clients
04:10
or someone else’s clients helps you
04:12
really understand who your clients hell
04:14
it really is so let’s talk exactly about
04:16
that actually very i love the
04:17
distinction yeah let’s dive into that a
04:20
little bit so the reason i made that
04:22
distinction is because we you know the
04:24
next natural question is okay where do i
04:26
find these messy
04:27
right and part of it is intuition part
04:30
of it is what you know what have you
04:32
sold in the past and what did people
04:34
respond to but a big part of it is how
04:37
do people say those things themselves
04:39
how do they talk about it how do they
04:41
think about it and the nice thing about
04:43
user reviews is they tend to be a little
04:47
bit more impartial so we’re also at good
04:50
funnel big on customer interviews but
04:54
there is a little bit of pressure on the
04:56
customer to tell you what they think you
04:57
want to hear right whereas if they’re
04:59
doing a review for your product it’s
05:01
there’s a step removed there they’re not
05:04
actually talking to someone who may
05:05
disagree with them or that you know not
05:08
understand what they’re saying or be
05:12
offended from probably what I have to
05:13
say god forbid right and so a user
05:18
review is can be a lot more honest and
05:21
so what we do is we collect up user
05:25
reviews and I’ll give you an example
05:27
there’s two gigantic examples that we
05:30
can look at one is we work with a lot of
05:32
technology businesses and software
05:35
businesses and what they’re there are a
05:39
few sites one of them is capped erycom
05:41
and you can go there and you can see
05:43
reviews of prominent software so if
05:46
you’re selling a CRM and you know this
05:50
is part of clickfunnels you can go and
05:52
look at what are the pain points people
05:53
have when they’re using Salesforce right
05:55
which may be something that you can
05:58
build into your messaging similarly if
06:01
you have a consumer product say a
06:03
supplement of some sort or you know who
06:07
knows what a gadget you can go on to
06:09
amazon.com and see what people are
06:11
saying about similar products and really
06:14
build up a sense of what’s going on with
06:17
them what are they thinking feeling one
06:20
thing you’ll notice as you go out and
06:22
you start collecting up all of these
06:24
user reviews is you really need a system
06:27
in order to make sense of all of this
06:29
because what you’re going to have is a
06:32
gigantic database of all of this
06:34
information and you need to be able to
06:36
make sense out of it somehow and so what
06:40
were a big fan of is meticulously
06:43
combing through this data and
06:44
categorizing it and there are four
06:48
categories that we look at that really
06:51
tip us off to the most important things
06:54
that we want to use in our messaging and
06:56
the most important things that we can
06:58
gather from our customer reviews and
07:01
testimonials and those four things are
07:03
what we’ve distilled into what we call
07:05
store analysis Dave and so what that
07:08
stands for is sticky messages triggers
07:11
objections and repeating themes so I’ll
07:16
just repeat that really quickly and then
07:17
I’ll go through each one sticky messages
07:20
triggers objections and repeating themes
07:23
and that’s what we call store analysis
07:24
so what we’re looking for with sticky
07:26
messages is things that customers say
07:30
that are worth swiping right where it’s
07:33
at we’re just looking for copy to steal
07:36
from our customers we want things that
07:39
we can just take almost verbatim or our
07:43
seeds to a really big idea I’ll give you
07:45
an example I was doing some work for a
07:49
to-do app recently and when I was
07:51
interviewing one of the customers what
07:53
she said when I asked her why is it so
07:56
important for you to use this product
07:58
she said before I use this I just felt
08:02
like by midday my day was evaporating my
08:06
day was evaporating right so like this
08:08
is a way to think about the value that
08:11
the product brings to her life but sort
08:13
of said in a much different way and so
08:16
that’s the copy version you know going
08:18
back to this idea copy versus messaging
08:20
the messaging version of that is you
08:24
know don’t lose control of your day get
08:26
the most important things done make sure
08:28
you’re executing on your priorities
08:30
never let your day get away from you all
08:32
of these things are kind of the same way
08:34
of saying what she said but that thing
08:37
she said was so sticky it was so
08:39
memorable that we wrote it down and we
08:42
said ha I think we can use something
08:43
like this we’re also looking for when
08:47
we’re going through all of these reviews
08:49
and testimonials trigger
08:51
what are those external things in
08:53
someone’s life that’s causing them to
08:57
start to seek out a solution or at least
08:59
tips them off to say you know what I
09:02
have a problem I want to solve this this
09:04
is a problem I can put a name to it i
09:06
can put language to it I need something
09:08
for this so for your business maybe it’s
09:11
like I need an easy way to build all of
09:16
my marketing automation and have all of
09:18
my data in one place right click funnels
09:21
or we could do that for you so maybe the
09:24
trigger is there using eight different
09:27
you know marketing platforms this is the
09:29
the curse of all marketing is you can do
09:31
anything but it’s terrible to manage and
09:34
so that’s really what clickfunnels does
09:37
right so what we’re looking for is what
09:39
are those main triggers that are causing
09:41
people to seek out a solution like ours
09:44
the next thing we’re looking for is
09:47
objections what are the reasons or
09:49
barriers that would drive someone away
09:52
from us what might they say that or
09:56
think that would prevent them from doing
09:58
business with us so as you know one of
10:01
those keys is change right I just don’t
10:05
want to change changes of pain in the
10:06
butt another common objection is always
10:09
price we want to dig beyond those things
10:11
and kind of figure out well what are
10:13
some of the objections that are unique
10:15
to us and what are some of the
10:17
objections that we can really meet
10:19
because they have to do with our own
10:21
business and then the last thing and
10:24
this may be one of the most important of
10:27
all is repeating themes so if you go out
10:31
and you do your homework especially if
10:33
you went beyond reviews and testimonials
10:35
and you went out and interviewed your
10:37
customers I think what you find is in
10:40
about five conversations that lasted say
10:43
15 to 20 minutes you’re going to hear
10:46
three themes or so three to five themes
10:49
repeating over and over again right why
10:52
someone did business with you what the
10:55
alternatives were what actually tipped
10:56
them in the direction of doing business
10:59
with you versus someone else you know
11:03
what those triggers were
11:04
that caused them to do business with you
11:05
these repeating themes I think are going
11:09
to be core to your messaging platform
11:12
and so if you look at out there like you
11:16
know we’re talking about marketing right
11:18
now if you look at the marketing space
11:20
competing products will often use a lot
11:23
of the same messages the reason for that
11:26
of course is that the people who are
11:29
looking to buy one of these products
11:31
have in their mind it’s a prerequisite
11:34
that they do these three things in order
11:36
for me to buy from them so I need to
11:38
make sure those happen right and then
11:41
there’s going to be those one or two
11:42
things that make them truly different so
11:45
like click funnels I’m sure there’s tons
11:48
of different things that make you truly
11:49
different but one of the core values
11:51
that you bring is one central place to
11:54
not only build and run but also assess
11:57
the success of your marketing huge value
11:59
there right so what is that one thing
12:01
but in addition to that you also have to
12:03
say yes we do landing pages yes we do
12:05
email yes we have metrics and analysis
12:09
so you know these are the kinds of
12:11
things that we look for in the store
12:13
analysis really for us makes it a
12:16
repeatable process to go out collect
12:19
this information and turn it into
12:21
something that really translates into
12:23
more conversions I love them and taking
12:25
notes this is fantastic thank you very
12:27
much for sharing that again s you are I
12:29
love the idea as far as importance of
12:31
going beyond just the reviews and
12:33
testimonials how do you actually do that
12:37
how do i turn it into now how do you go
12:40
beyond just three I mean you make as far
12:42
as actually ah you reach out to your
12:44
customers my phone how do you really
12:46
because a lot of people are really
12:47
hesitant to actually talk to their
12:49
customers it’s such a crazy thing in
12:51
this online world I I’m always amazed
12:53
when I run across people like ah you
12:54
know what we just don’t ever want to
12:56
talk to our customers I’m like you got
12:58
to be kidding me so I’m curious as far
13:00
as how do you actually do that what’s
13:01
the you do it my phone do you reach out
13:03
them by email me what’s how do you
13:04
really get the type of data that you can
13:06
go through that storm ounces on uh yeah
13:10
so going beyond reviews and testimonials
13:13
you know I think there’s a couple key
13:15
things you can do so one is building
13:18
to your welcome sequence one of your
13:20
emails just let people know that they
13:22
can reach out to you and talk to you
13:24
anytime and that’s a great way to just
13:26
kind of in an automated way have a
13:28
trickle of information coming in from
13:31
people but to your question about
13:33
channel or method you know I think phone
13:36
conversations are extremely important
13:40
the reason for that is anytime someone
13:43
shows some hesitation or they only tell
13:46
you part of the story you have the
13:48
option to ask follow-up questions and
13:51
you get to hear their tone you get to
13:54
hear where they’re excited you get to
13:56
hear where they’re angry you get to hear
13:58
where they’re the most emotionally
14:01
charged around their problems the
14:04
solutions your business whatever it is
14:06
and then you can ask follow-up questions
14:08
the key to this of course is to ask
14:11
open-ended questions the biggest mistake
14:15
I see people making when they go out and
14:17
they interview their customers number
14:19
one is they don’t do it so let’s just
14:21
scratch that off the list and assume
14:22
you’re willing to do it but number two
14:25
is they’re asking a lot of leading
14:27
questions so I hear a lot of people
14:30
asking questions like you know why do
14:34
you think you know such and such
14:36
comments so great a really bad question
14:40
because now now we’ve set up the frame
14:43
that your business is great and so
14:45
people are just going to tell you
14:46
they’re going to look for an answer
14:48
about why it’s so great rather than
14:50
saying like what did you find to be the
14:53
most important aspect of you know
14:56
clickfunnels calm what was the most
14:59
valuable thing what was the thing that
15:01
you weren’t sure was going to be
15:04
valuable but you found to be immensely
15:06
valuable these kinds of questions will I
15:09
think give you much more insight so ask
15:13
open-ended questions in terms of the
15:15
full process how do you recruit people
15:18
that’s kind of usually the number one
15:20
question who should I interview you know
15:23
based on your customer persona whoever
15:28
your ideal perfect persona is
15:30
what you’re going to want to do is look
15:34
for people who look like that right not
15:36
not physically look like that but who
15:39
have those characteristics who’s closest
15:42
to your perfect persona interview those
15:44
people 5 to 10 of them don’t put
15:46
pressure on yourself to do a million
15:48
interviews the interview should only
15:50
last 15 to 20 minutes you could go as
15:54
long as 30 but typically i find that
15:56
it’s unnecessary and i would recommend
15:59
emailing them and and putting them in a
16:03
position of being an expert here’s what
16:06
i mean by that a lot of people are
16:09
hesitant to reach out to their customers
16:12
because I think maybe two things one
16:15
they’re afraid they’re going to say no
16:16
and I have a response to that and two is
16:20
they’re afraid that they’re going to
16:21
hear things that they don’t want to hear
16:23
now you got to get over the second one
16:26
because what your customers are going to
16:29
do is give you vital information
16:31
information that you really can’t pay
16:34
for right so get over the idea that
16:38
there may be something that they don’t
16:40
like because there is I promise you
16:42
there’s something about you or your
16:43
company that they don’t like and when
16:46
you email them and ask them for an
16:49
interview here’s what you’re going to
16:50
say you’re going to say you know hello
16:54
first name I am so and so the CEO of my
16:58
company I’m actively trying to improve
17:02
my product or service and since you
17:05
bought you’re in a unique position to
17:07
tell me all about it what I want to do
17:10
is make it a better experience for you
17:11
and everybody else would you be willing
17:14
to spend some time on the phone with me
17:16
what you’re going to find is almost
17:18
everybody will say yes because you’ve
17:20
done a couple things you’ve asked them
17:22
for help do you know the social norm to
17:24
give out to people you’ve also elevated
17:27
them to the position of being an expert
17:30
they’re in a unique position to give you
17:32
information right so make sure that they
17:35
understand that and that you can make
17:37
them feel like an expert and then just
17:39
schedule a call and get on I mean right
17:42
now Dave you and I are using Skype Skype
17:44
is
17:44
perfectly acceptable way I would
17:46
recommend using something where you can
17:48
record the call and let your customer
17:50
know that you’re going to record the
17:52
call so that you can go back and kind of
17:54
analyze what happened later and that
17:57
also allows you to be in the moment and
17:59
not worry about taking all of these
18:02
meticulous notes you can just go back
18:04
and refer to the the gold that you’ve
18:07
uncovered later so find your perfect
18:10
profile 5 to 10 people who are like that
18:14
email them get on the phone with them
18:17
and record it and then you’ll be able to
18:19
do your analysis around those sticky
18:21
messages triggers objections and
18:22
repeated themes that’s fantastic so tell
18:26
me on some listen this kind of stuff is
18:28
this things that you do for other
18:30
companies well I know one of the things
18:33
a lot of people are they just hate talk
18:35
with our customers I’ve run across all
18:36
the time blows me away but they still do
18:38
and so they’re always trying to
18:39
outsource this and I’m kind of curious
18:41
is this something that is outsourcing
18:43
and if so is it something you guys do a
18:45
good funnel or how does that work it
18:48
helps or ssible I like that that’s going
18:51
to be my word of the day so it is
18:52
outsourcing and yes it is something that
18:55
we do as part of our of our brand
18:59
messaging platform that will create for
19:01
companies we do go out and interview
19:04
their customers which you know generally
19:07
we found is one of the biggest places
19:09
where we add value is to be able to not
19:11
only understand how to collect the data
19:14
and be fearless about collecting the
19:16
data but also making sense of it so that
19:20
it can be transformed into something
19:21
usable that actually measurably changes
19:23
your marketing performance that’s
19:25
fantastic I could say the one thing I
19:29
really I stress all the time in fact it
19:31
was kind of funny we have the site I was
19:33
speaking to trade alone one of our big
19:34
quick fellas users about this you know
19:36
were to feel it so it last week it was
19:38
kind of crazy we’re going through this
19:39
whole conversation about in fact he was
19:42
training the sales staff and he couldn’t
19:44
believe how you know a lot of them were
19:47
just they were taking these objections
19:49
and they weren’t even respond to the
19:51
ejection because the person said no and
19:53
they just went on to the next call and
19:54
instead he’ll as a CEO of a company your
19:56
job is to make sure
19:58
you hear from your customers and his
20:01
whole thing knowledge is listen to his
20:02
customers he’s trying to go back and
20:03
find out you know what are the hurdles
20:05
what are the obstacles of this doesn’t
20:06
face with so obviously you can help on
20:08
the sales standpoint but more
20:10
importantly to really make sure that as
20:12
a CEO or is the owner of your company or
20:15
a product or service that you have
20:16
you’ve got to believe that it’s the best
20:18
thing out there and if it is that you
20:20
should be trying to do everything
20:21
possible to get into the hands of as
20:23
many people as you possibly can and so I
20:25
think that the service that you offered
20:27
good funnel cars the most people who
20:29
hate getting on the phone or don’t want
20:30
to I think it’s a great opportunity to I
20:33
can’t reach out in contact what’s it
20:34
what’s the easiest way from the recount
20:36
contact you the easiest way is to email
20:40
me directly it’s liston lis tio n at
20:43
good funnel dot CO and of course they
20:46
can anybody listening to this I welcome
20:48
you to head over to our website and we
20:50
have articles on collecting testimonials
20:53
doing the store analysis interviewing
20:56
your customers pretty much everything
20:58
we’ve talked about here is right in our
21:00
wheelhouse and it’s something that we
21:01
can help you with so yeah I’d welcome
21:03
anybody to ping me directly that’s
21:05
awesome i know i was actually shitting I
21:09
my wife involved in the health and
21:11
fitness industry something doing a lot
21:13
of funnel hockey and one of the ones i
21:14
was looking at recently was Beachbody
21:15
and they’ve got such an amazing style
21:18
they test and split test everything but
21:20
the part i found really interesting was
21:22
at the end of it after you actually
21:24
bought some of the things they were
21:26
asking was well now that you’ve
21:27
purchased you know they went through the
21:29
survey on the out as we were leaving and
21:32
I thought it was really cool so some
21:33
things are asking sogno how much weight
21:35
are you wanting to lose two to three
21:38
thousand five to ten pounds you know ten
21:40
to fifteen more than 20 and then also
21:42
finding out as far as obviously as far
21:44
as gender and so they started going
21:46
through this thing f and this was again
21:47
for people who actually purchased
21:49
already but I got it really fascinated
21:51
because all of a sudden the emails that
21:52
you started getting later were you know
21:54
are you still struggling sorry if you
21:56
lost that five to ten pounds yet and
21:59
their whole problem their whole thing
22:01
was there trying to make sure that
22:02
people actually consuming the content
22:03
and especially it with a DVD and fitness
22:06
programs everything else very easy you
22:08
know put on the side and not do
22:10
with it and so I thought that kind of
22:13
tied into what you were referring to
22:14
earlier as far as those triggers and
22:16
some of the key messages you can
22:17
actually get those from your clients
22:19
even as they’re leaving as far as why
22:21
did they actually purchase your product
22:22
what are some of the things they’re
22:23
trying to hopefully get from buying that
22:25
and use that to reinforce their purchase
22:28
yeah you know on a similar note I’ll
22:31
give you a tip that we’ve used and we
22:34
found to be really successful is one
22:37
thing that we always look at when we’re
22:39
looking at conversion rates and
22:42
potentially improving them is form
22:44
length right there’s everybody wants to
22:47
know what’s the perfect amount of feel
22:48
to have on a form of course the answer
22:51
is the number that gets you the most
22:53
conversion of qualified leads but one
22:56
way we found that we could reduce the
22:58
number of fields on the form is after
23:02
someone converts we’ll ask them on the
23:05
thank you page some of those fields that
23:07
we felt were ancillary are kind of nice
23:09
to have information but not absolutely
23:11
necessary and we would ask them an
23:13
additional two to three questions that
23:16
make it feel like the process is going
23:17
to be much more customized after that
23:19
right so we’d say something like you
23:23
know okay great your thing is on the way
23:26
now tell us a little bit more about you
23:29
so we can deliver the best possible
23:30
experience and we would ask them two or
23:33
three additional questions which to your
23:35
point about the salesroom and figuring
23:38
out objections is great for qualifying
23:40
sales so that’s actually worked really
23:42
well for us out of awesome love that
23:45
well I appreciate all the amazing
23:48
content again as love the store analysis
23:50
and I know you get a lots of content on
23:51
your site what was the actual link you
23:54
said there was another place that I
23:56
could get something specific on your
23:57
site yeah absolutely so if anybody is
24:00
looking for more tools to do what I
24:04
talked about today they can go to good
24:06
funnel dot CEO / store analysis sto our
24:11
analysis and I have some guides and
24:15
templates there that will help you do
24:16
this process if you’re interested in
24:18
doing it I love it any other parting
24:20
words you want to make sure that people
24:21
hear about her share what
24:23
you know I don’t think so David’s just
24:25
been a thrill to be here with you and I
24:27
hope someone someone out there gets more
24:30
out of their business as a result of
24:31
listening to this well again listen
24:34
thank you so much for your time today
24:35
greatly appreciate it and look forward
24:37
to doing some other great stuff with you
24:38
in the future it’s great thank you
24:40
thanks for listening to puddle hacker
24:41
radio podcast if you’d like to be
24:43
notified anytime we release a new
24:44
episode just subscribe over at funnel
24:47
hacker radio com in addition to that
24:49
we’d love to send you a free gift you
24:51
can find that free gift at funnel hacker
24:54
radio com forward slash retrial one last
24:58
thing is we love giving away cars don’t
25:01
you like access to a free dream car all
25:03
you have to do is go to frontal hacker
25:05
radio com forward slash dream car and
25:07
you’ll get all the details thanks again
25:09
for listening

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