Messenger Tactics And Why You Can't Use AI... Yet - Ethan Sigmon - FHR #203

Funnel Hacker Radio - Podcast - Video (Russell Brunson - FunnelHackerTV)

Expert Secrets: Find Your Message, Build A Tribe, And Change The World…

:arrow_right: Get FREE Book Now! (Limited Copies)

“Expert Secrets Is The Map That Will Allow You To Turn Your Specialized Knowledge, Talents and Abilities Into A Business That Will Work For You! This Is One Of The Shortcuts of The New Rich” - Robert Kiyosaki

YouTube Transcript: English (auto-generated)

00:00
welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast
00:03
where we go behind the scenes and
00:05
uncover the tactics and strategies top
00:07
entrepreneurs are using to make more
00:09
sales dominate their markets and how you
00:12
can get those same results here is your
00:14
host Dave Woodward hey everybody welcome
00:18
back to form Hawker radio I’m your host
00:19
Dave Woodward and you guys are in for an
00:20
experience it’s gonna be a ton of fun I
00:22
want to bring on right now Ethan Sigmund
00:24
who is the founder of a Pesta ethan
00:26
welcome to the show
00:27
hey David good to be here with you I’m
00:29
excited yeah I saw you last week hanging
00:31
out there in San Diego TNC and specs of
00:33
time on boats and everything else we
00:35
know it’s always a good experience but
00:37
basically make sure people understand a
00:39
little bit about you you’re basically
00:41
the founder of a pest also created
00:43
social insight insight I oh and you’ve
00:46
ran a huge facebook ad agency doing
00:47
hundreds of thousands of dollars in
00:49
facebook ads for people like John Lee
00:51
Dumas and sumo me so you got a ton of
00:53
experience in this whole Facebook realm
00:55
and most importantly right now with no
00:57
pest you guys are just diving in super
00:59
hard in this whole bot technology so I
01:00
really want kind of dive into this so
01:02
our audience understands how they can
01:04
actually use BOTS why they’re so
01:05
important their to their community and
01:07
more importantly as far as really
01:08
generating a long-term value to the
01:10
client yeah absolutely absolutely we’re
01:14
really excited and it’s you know it’s
01:16
something that I think is good to talk
01:19
about because Russell himself is using
01:22
or has been using messenger you know
01:23
with you guys over there at clickfunnels
01:25
for a long time I think he was one of
01:27
the first adopters of it you know
01:29
sending out those broadcasts and things
01:30
like that and so it’s probably something
01:32
that your audience is seeing and things
01:34
like that and maybe don’t know what how
01:37
to get started with it or you know the
01:39
best way to get started with it and
01:40
everything else and so I think it’ll be
01:42
a fun conversation to have
01:44
I think that’s great I know it’s a it’s
01:46
definitely a large part of what we do
01:47
currently and it’s become even larger
01:49
over the next month to six months as we
01:52
roll out a whole bunch of different
01:52
features and things related to this
01:54
whole idea as far as Facebook messengers
01:56
so if you don’t mind let’s cut I spoke
01:58
to Ethan Andrew Warner on a while back
02:01
we talked about these bot academies and
02:03
the stuff he was doing and so a lot of
02:05
our users are a little bit familiar with
02:06
it but if you don’t mind help people
02:08
understand it real briefly as far as why
02:10
why is messenger getting so much
02:12
attention right now
02:13
yes Oh messenger is getting a lot of
02:15
attention right now cuz a little over a
02:17
year ago like a year and a half ago
02:19
Facebook basically opened up their API
02:21
which is kind of their back-end to
02:24
access and be able to send messages to
02:27
users and things like that to the public
02:30
and said hey if you follow these rules
02:32
will allow you to send messages and
02:34
content to people using the messenger
02:36
and and we want to create these things
02:38
called chat BOTS and so when it first
02:41
launched there was a ton of buzz around
02:43
it because it was something brand-new
02:45
obviously a huge new ocean and and there
02:48
was a lot of people thinking that you
02:50
know the AI was going to take over where
02:53
you’re gonna be able to program these
02:54
chat BOTS that just kind of interacted
02:56
and did all your customer support for
02:58
you or this that or the other and I
03:01
think we all kind of saw this wave of
03:03
chat BOTS got really really hyped up and
03:05
everybody is kind of jumping on them and
03:07
then there was this fall-off as people
03:10
started to realize some of the
03:11
limitations of you know chat BOTS and
03:14
the facebook Messenger and things like
03:16
that and so that’s kind of what we’re
03:20
trying to help people understand is how
03:23
it all works how you can actually you
03:25
know send messages to people if you
03:27
don’t know how to code if you don’t know
03:28
how to use Facebook’s API yourself how
03:32
you can actually do it in a way where
03:33
people have a good experience and you
03:36
know everything feels fluid and and
03:38
makes sense and you know what that means
03:41
from a marketing standpoint because you
03:44
know I’m a big quick funnels user and
03:47
you know we kind of follow that same
03:50
terminology that Russell does and that’s
03:52
that we’re direct marketers really and
03:53
and so if we can you know generate leads
03:56
or make sales that’s really the main
03:58
thing that we care about and measure and
03:59
there’s some ways that you have to
04:01
really you know well there’s some things
04:04
that you have to pay attention to with
04:06
the Facebook messenger while you try to
04:08
do that to make sure that you don’t get
04:09
in trouble with Facebook and so there’s
04:11
kind of all let’s go away I know the
04:15
part that’s most important and you’re
04:16
not we’re talking about this just the
04:17
other night and that is the value of the
04:19
relationship and it needs to be as
04:21
authentic as possible through a chat bot
04:23
through Facebook Messenger what are some
04:25
things people first of all should make
04:26
sure that
04:27
don’t do yeah some of the things that
04:29
you should make sure that you don’t do
04:30
or right now everybody wanted to get
04:34
into this AI part of chat BOTS okay I’m
04:37
gonna program all these responses and
04:39
then we’re gonna there’s this technology
04:41
out here that’s gonna be able to respond
04:43
and you know interact for me what we’re
04:46
finding now is that technology’s just
04:49
not quite where it needs to be yet in
04:51
order for that to be really really
04:53
effective and so some people get
04:54
themselves into trouble by trying to do
04:56
everything through just AI and trying to
04:59
set everything up in there and then what
05:01
happens is it creates a bad user
05:02
experience for people kind of
05:04
interacting with you on messenger
05:06
because maybe they ask a question that
05:07
you don’t have a response programmed for
05:09
and or you know the AI sends some you
05:12
know random out of context response
05:15
things like that because AI quite kind
05:18
can’t quite pick up on you know social
05:20
cues or context as well as you know you
05:23
or me can so that would be one of the
05:26
big don’ts is hey don’t just go full AI
05:28
the technology is not there yet maybe
05:30
one day it will be but until then I
05:34
recommend that you treated like
05:37
conversational email marketing so look
05:40
at what you’re doing with your email
05:42
marketing what you have the sequences
05:44
you have set up in action etics or you
05:46
know whatever email marketing service
05:48
you’re using and try and create a little
05:51
bit try and break those down into little
05:53
smaller conversational flows and mimic
05:56
that with your messenger marketing so
05:59
that it kind of takes on that same
06:00
relationship and and give people
06:03
optional responses rather than keeping
06:05
things so open-ended I love that so are
06:09
most of your questions you’re asking
06:10
questions to people is it primarily yes
06:12
and no or
06:13
data type of things that they’re
06:14
entering in that you can respond quickly
06:15
to yeah I mean they can be yes or no and
06:19
then the other kind of thing that we
06:21
recommend is asking segmenting questions
06:24
right so if you listen to anybody like
06:27
Ryan Levesque or you know fall anybody
06:30
who does kind of segment a segmentation
06:33
email marketing you know the ask method
06:36
there you kind of can survey your your
06:38
you
06:39
users and things like that and you kind
06:42
of leave you take open any questions but
06:46
give specific examples so for example to
06:48
put it in context you know if I was
06:50
maybe launching a pesto right we might
06:53
have you opt into a messenger sequence
06:55
and then the first question we might ask
06:57
you is hey tell us a little bit more
06:59
about your business what type of
07:00
products do you sell do you sell and
07:02
then we could give you know five or six
07:05
predefined answers they could answer you
07:08
know it could be physical products
07:09
digital products coaching / consulting
07:13
you know ecommerce and then maybe other
07:17
or something like that
07:18
and so it’s not just a yes/no sometimes
07:21
you will do yes/no but you really want
07:24
to just be able to segment people down
07:25
so you can kind of start to build a
07:27
profile for somebody and tailor your
07:29
messaging a little bit based off of you
07:32
know where they are in their business
07:34
and and you know who they are I love
07:38
that I know for us list segmentation as
07:40
people start looking at things we’re you
07:42
know they’ve been following this podcast
07:45
or Russell’s podcasts or anything else
07:46
that’s out there from us they’re hearing
07:48
a lot about what we referred to as this
07:49
whole mother funnel thing that we’re
07:51
creating where it’s all list
07:52
segmentation they first come in and
07:54
we’re actually almost setting up a
07:56
barrier to entry inside of into
07:58
clickfunnels
07:58
we want to know first who they are so
08:00
that we can better serve them and I know
08:02
it’s what you guys have done in a Pesta
08:03
super super well is really helping
08:06
people
08:06
segment quickly so that you can then
08:09
respond in a way that actually feels
08:12
much more authentic because you know who
08:15
they are if it’s a totally different
08:17
conversation if you’re dealing with
08:18
someone who’s focused on e-commerce
08:19
versus a person who’s focused more on a
08:22
consulting type of coaching program
08:24
exactly exactly yeah I think both with
08:28
the Oh pesto software and with the
08:29
clickfunnels software we hit the same
08:31
problem right it’s like it’s something
08:34
that’s so powerful that it can help
08:35
almost every you know every business out
08:38
there can benefit from it right but the
08:40
way that every business implements it is
08:42
a little different and so if you can
08:45
know what business they’re in or what
08:46
their end goal is or things like that
08:48
you can show them the things that are
08:51
most important to them right
08:52
way to get them there and that’s that
08:54
can be generally true for almost every
08:56
industry you know if you’re if you own a
08:59
gym and your goal is to help people you
09:01
know start working out more you know I’m
09:04
I have a different goal when I go to the
09:06
gym than my wife has my goal may be that
09:09
I’m trying to bulk or do these things
09:11
where my wife school may be that she’s
09:12
trying to slim down or lose a set amount
09:15
of weight or you know tone her legs or
09:18
something like that and so when you can
09:21
ask and kind of figure out what your
09:22
clients goals are or you know your
09:25
prospects desires are that’s when you
09:27
can get really targeted in your
09:29
marketing I love that I know that you
09:31
come from in the direct response
09:33
marketing days as well and spending that
09:35
kind of time in there these are the
09:36
things we would have loved been able to
09:37
have years ago where you actually could
09:40
target where before we have to have
09:41
spent a whole bunch of money buying
09:42
those targeted lists and then still
09:44
trying to segment based on that kind of
09:46
stuff so as you’re taking a look at
09:48
people who are using a Pesta and who are
09:50
out there segmenting what are some of
09:52
the what are some of the things that
09:54
people are are segmenting for the most
09:56
yeah so there’s two types of
09:58
segmentation that you can do you know
10:00
there’s the first type that we talked
10:02
about where you kind of ask questions
10:04
and you get responses from them and a
10:07
lot of people have been doing that in
10:09
BOTS already that was one of the big you
10:12
know beneficial factors of bots you
10:15
could do that with almost every bot
10:17
software out there currently the other
10:20
big type of segmentation that you know
10:22
you guys have created abilities to do
10:25
and stuff with action etics that’s
10:26
really powerful it’s called behavioral
10:28
segmentation and so what that means is
10:31
you know besides telling you what my
10:33
desires are and actually giving you that
10:36
physical input my actions also can
10:39
segment me into different buckets so for
10:42
example I know from listening to your
10:45
gut this podcast in Russell’s podcast
10:46
and stuff in clickfunnels case you guys
10:48
know that somebody who comes in as a
10:51
cook phonos user from this specific
10:53
front-end funnel has a lower churn rate
10:56
than somebody that comes in from this
10:58
other you know front-end funnel and you
11:01
and so that’s a behavioral segmentation
11:03
the behaviors they purchased may be this
11:05
front-end
11:06
product rather than this other front-end
11:08
product right and so the way that you
11:10
you take that data traditionally is you
11:12
have their email address you kind of
11:14
associated with their purchases and
11:16
styling you know okay this person
11:18
probably has a higher lifetime value as
11:20
a customer than this other person and so
11:22
the big problem that we’ve had and the
11:24
big disconnect that I saw with bots was
11:27
there was no way to do behavioral
11:29
segmentation all of your tracking and
11:31
segmentation was just siloed into the
11:34
Facebook messenger with you know
11:36
existing platforms out there and so
11:38
that’s what we’ve really tried to create
11:40
with though passes we’ve created a pixel
11:42
that you can place on any website or any
11:45
page that you have and so then you can
11:47
start to collect data on once somebody
11:49
becomes a subscriber what pages they
11:52
visit what products of yours they’ve
11:54
purchased all those things so then
11:57
inside of a Pesta you can create you
11:59
know actions or triggers based off of
12:02
certain behavioral things that they’ve
12:05
done as well and so you know the message
12:07
that you send to somebody who takes your
12:09
you know expertise the expert secrets
12:12
book and then goes through is probably
12:14
gonna be a little bit different
12:15
different than the messaging who’s
12:17
somebody from somebody who opted into
12:20
the perfect webinar script you know what
12:21
I mean and so you’re also looking at as
12:24
far as behavior as far as like cart
12:26
abandonment exactly so are then and they
12:28
come through and they don’t buy you now
12:30
can follow up through a bot which I
12:31
think is just fantastic it’s I think
12:34
again you’re in the you play in this
12:36
world every single day but what are some
12:38
of the some of the behaviors that that
12:41
opacity and a messenger type of app can
12:44
really help a clickfunnels user or
12:47
anyone else with that matter actually
12:48
get a better ROI or a larger lifetime
12:51
value out of obviously karna banham it’s
12:53
gonna be one of them what are some the
12:53
other things yeah another huge one is
12:57
pertaining to webinars you know
12:59
clickfunnels was built on the back of
13:01
webinars and I know a lot of people are
13:04
have built their businesses from clip
13:06
funnels on the back of webinars and a
13:09
big thing with webinars is you know you
13:10
want to message someone differently
13:13
based on if they actually attended your
13:15
webinar worth they they just opted in
13:18
and never attended your webinar
13:19
right or maybe they were thinking about
13:21
opting in and then didn’t finish the
13:23
opt-in so those are kind of three
13:25
behavioral segments that you could have
13:27
potentially right there in like a
13:28
webinar funnel per se and you could then
13:31
tailor the messaging inside of a Pesta
13:34
to line up with the messaging that you
13:36
would send through your emails to you
13:38
know maybe tell somebody about the offer
13:40
they heard about on the webinar a little
13:42
bit more or to not even mention your
13:44
offer yet because you know they missed
13:46
the webinar and now your goal is just to
13:48
try and get them to watch the replay or
13:50
to register for another time right and
13:53
so that way it actually ends up creating
13:55
a better prospect experience as well
13:58
because then you don’t feel like you’re
14:00
getting spammed or hit by you know
14:02
information or messages that don’t
14:04
pertain to you right so it benefits you
14:07
as kind of a business owner in the sense
14:09
that you’re you’re getting more targeted
14:11
messaging so then you’re getting higher
14:12
conversion rates and it also benefits
14:14
those that you’re marketing to because
14:16
then they’re not feeling like they’re
14:17
getting expand so that’s one just one
14:19
example that’s cool tell me real quick
14:24
because I’ve seen I’m stalking Mike
14:25
doing about this the other day with his
14:27
he’s rolling out a new product one of
14:29
things he was looking at was split
14:30
testing whether or not he should have
14:32
email as an opt-in or messenger or both
14:35
have you have you seen any results from
14:38
from forcing one of the other or split
14:40
testing both of them yeah so we’ve
14:42
played we’ve played with both and
14:44
there’s tons of pluses and minuses to
14:46
both that you like really get into the
14:48
technical side of it right and up until
14:52
recently it was really difficult you had
14:55
to choose you had to choose email or you
14:57
had to choose messenger first right and
14:59
then it was like okay well if you take
15:00
email first once they’re on the email
15:02
let’s try and get them to opt into the
15:04
messenger if you choose messenger first
15:06
you know try and get them to give you an
15:08
email address so you have both I would I
15:11
would always recommend your end goal is
15:12
that you want to have both because I’m
15:15
I’m a big believer that it’s not gonna
15:17
come down to ditching email and using
15:19
messenger only and it’s it’s it’s gonna
15:22
come down to who has used them both
15:25
together the in the best fashion and
15:27
really made it a congruent system where
15:30
you’re communicating on all those
15:31
channels
15:32
so I kind of would recommend doing a
15:36
flow where you can add basically a scent
15:40
to messenger what they call checkbox
15:42
underneath any email opt-in form that
15:45
you have and it can opt them in at the
15:47
same time as they opt in with their
15:50
email address and they can they can
15:52
choose to opt in with messenger or not
15:54
so it’s kind of like a checkbox so right
15:56
now one of the things that you have in
15:57
clickfunnels when you build a form as
16:00
you can say can add an SMS element right
16:02
and when you do a little check box
16:05
appears if they click the check box a
16:07
whole drop down comes down where they
16:09
could put in their phone number of
16:10
things like that you can make it
16:12
required you can make it so it’s not
16:13
required it’s just totally up to you the
16:17
check the send a messenger checkbox is
16:19
is very similar to that it’s just a
16:22
little check box that says send a
16:23
messenger if they click it they’ll be
16:24
opted into your messenger list when the
16:26
page submits if they don’t they won’t be
16:29
so that’s kind of what I recommend right
16:32
now you can make it required what we
16:34
have seen if you make it fully required
16:36
is your conversion rate usually goes
16:38
down a little bit so let’s say your
16:41
pages you know converting 30% we’ve
16:43
usually seen them drop by you know about
16:45
five ish percent or so so you’re down to
16:48
25% the other side of the flip side of
16:50
that coin though is you have both their
16:52
email address and them as a messenger
16:54
subscriber so your chances of reaching
16:56
them are much much higher so for every
17:00
person it’s a little bit different but I
17:02
recommend trying to really use that
17:05
checkbox trigger and just putting it on
17:08
all your clickfunnels pages where it
17:11
makes sense to collect both and if
17:13
you’re not doing that and your email
17:14
follow-ups trying to get them to get
17:16
become a messenger subscriber but we’re
17:19
playing around with a ton of new
17:21
different flows on that here in the next
17:23
two weeks so I’ll have a big big slew of
17:26
data here to give you even more answers
17:29
on it soon but those are kind of our
17:31
initial findings that we’ve seen so far
17:33
that’s awesome well tell me as is we
17:36
kind of get close to wrapping things up
17:38
here what are some of the other things
17:39
you want to make sure that people hear
17:41
about or know about with regard to
17:42
either BOTS or o Pesta
17:44
yeah I think the the biggest thing that
17:48
we’re trying to tell people is that you
17:52
know right now everybody refers to them
17:53
as chatbots and our honest my honest
17:57
opinion is chatbots are a terrible way
17:59
to market and the reason is is because
18:02
like we talked about in the very
18:03
beginning they use they try to use a lot
18:05
of AI they sometimes if they aren’t done
18:09
right they just feel like the
18:11
pre-recorded you know customer support
18:13
recording you get when you call your
18:15
bank that says press one to get to
18:16
finance to talk to a banker or whatnot
18:20
and so what I always tell people is
18:22
don’t create a chatbot look at this as
18:25
messenger marketing automation look at
18:28
what you’re doing with your email
18:30
marketing and think how can i replicate
18:32
that in a similar fashion with but but
18:37
deliver inside the facebook messenger
18:39
and make it more of a conversation so
18:42
that’s that’s the biggest mind shift
18:45
that we’re trying to help people realize
18:47
and we’ve seen as we’ve taken and done
18:49
that it’s made huge huge results one of
18:52
the big ones that we did that with is
18:54
you know John Lee Dumas he’s a good
18:57
friend he’s one of our previous clients
18:58
he jumped on chatbots right away when
19:01
they came out and he had this bot and
19:04
Facebook actually released this thing
19:06
when you created BOTS that people could
19:08
rate your BOTS and they could say five
19:10
stars two stars whatever it is right and
19:14
I looked at his reviews on on his bots
19:17
one day and he had like less than a
19:19
two-star review on it and all the
19:22
comments were like this is too long it
19:24
you know it doesn’t feel conversational
19:27
all these things right and it’s because
19:29
it was set up as a traditional chat bot
19:31
where it was more of like a you know a
19:34
pre-recorded customer service recording
19:36
and so we went in we kind of revamped it
19:39
we said hey look you’re trying to
19:40
deliver somebody a goals course how are
19:42
you doing this with email right now
19:43
let’s make it similar let’s just keep it
19:45
short keep it simple deliver what they
19:47
want and we match it up and the reviews
19:51
just skyrocketed he got way better
19:54
results the people going through were
19:56
happy
19:57
and it’s not like we did anything crazy
19:59
we just revisited how we were looking at
20:02
creating this experience inside the
20:04
messenger and just making it similar to
20:06
the things that you’re already doing I
20:08
love that again and I always look at
20:10
this is you really have to be building a
20:11
little a very long term relationship
20:13
with with these people and if you come
20:15
across either whether it’s spammy and
20:18
your email or non conversational in your
20:20
thoughts or your messenger I’m gonna
20:21
have to it so I’m going to change from
20:22
bottom you’re gonna correct yeah Katie
20:29
through messenger it’s important
20:32
basically that you as you’re doing it
20:33
that you realize you’re creating this
20:34
relationship with your clients and as
20:37
you spend that time inside of messenger
20:39
the better you get as far as being
20:40
conversational the more authentic it
20:42
comes across and more importantly the
20:44
the more data and the segmentation as
20:47
well as better client experience your
20:50
users are gonna have as well so I think
20:52
it’s it’s a huge win-win
20:54
I thoroughly appreciate all of your
20:55
experience if someone wants to get more
20:57
information from you or connect with you
20:59
what’s the easiest way of doing that you
21:00
do yeah the best way to do that is to
21:03
actually just hop in to Oh pesto comm we
21:06
have a live chat there believe it or not
21:09
a lot of times I’ll answer some support
21:10
tickets and things like that so if you
21:13
even just ping support there and and say
21:15
hey they can probably push in my way or
21:17
you can always find me on Facebook as
21:19
well just Ethan Sigmund I’m sure you’ll
21:22
be able to pull me up on Facebook but
21:24
those are the easiest ways to to catch
21:26
me and just ping me through messenger
21:29
Pesta ope sta comm check it out again a
21:34
lot of the whole idea as far as pixels
21:36
and stuff that you guys have done is
21:37
fantastic I think that’s one of the main
21:39
new technologies you guys can have
21:41
brought into this whole messenger thing
21:43
is really being able to gather
21:44
behavioral data from people so that your
21:47
messages actually become much more
21:48
authentic and real so congratulations on
21:51
all your success and again check out a
21:54
pest calm Ethan massive thank you to you
21:57
your always went out there giving
21:58
massive value to anyone everyone I
22:00
talked to so thanks again any other
22:02
parting words no thank you David’s been
22:05
amazing and really really love what you
22:08
guys have done the clickfunnels like I
22:09
said we use it every day
22:10
so we are forever grateful to you all
22:13
right Ethan we’ll talk to you real soon
22:15
but yeah all right but you know one of
22:18
the things that means a ton to me is the
22:20
personal reviews that you guys leave on
22:22
iTunes you wouldn’t mind going out rate
22:24
this show let me know how I’m doing just
22:26
go to iTunes click on the episode and
22:28
rate it leave a comment I read all the
22:29
comments I appreciate all the stars and
22:32
everything when you already left farming
22:34
I can really appreciate it and it’s my
22:35
way of finding out how I’m doing so if
22:37
you don’t mind I’d really appreciate it
22:38
and again thank you so much for all that
22:41
you guys do have a great day

Expert Secrets: Find Your Message, Build A Tribe, And Change The World…

:arrow_right: Get FREE Book Now! (Limited Copies)

“Expert Secrets Is The Map That Will Allow You To Turn Your Specialized Knowledge, Talents and Abilities Into A Business That Will Work For You! This Is One Of The Shortcuts of The New Rich” - Robert Kiyosaki