Sean Ellis, How To Scale Your Business Using The Latest Growth Hacking Secrets

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00:00
welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast
00:03
where we go behind the scenes and
00:05
uncover the tactics and strategies top
00:07
entrepreneurs are using to make more
00:09
sales dominate their market and how you
00:12
can get those same results here is your
00:14
host dave woodward hey everybody welcome
00:18
back to funnel hacker radio i’m your
00:19
host dave would wear today you guys are
00:21
going to love the topic we have today we
00:23
have the opportunity of having shaun
00:25
ellis with us who’s been the head of
00:26
marketing for eventbrite dropbox locked
00:29
me in this is a man who specialized then
00:31
in growth hacking and want to welcome to
00:33
the show shaun ellis John thanks so much
00:35
for joining us thanks David script to be
00:37
on this is exciting stuff growth hacking
00:40
and funnel hacking is obviously a right
00:42
up our alley this is kind of stuff we
00:44
specialized and trying to find as many
00:45
different hats as we possibly can so
00:47
welcome to funnel hacker radio tell us
00:49
we don’t mind a little bit about how you
00:51
got involved in growth hacking and
00:53
really kind of help people as you know
00:54
what growth hacking is all about yes sir
00:58
so I I coined the term growth hacking in
01:00
2010 it was at a time where I was just
01:04
finishing up working with Dropbox and
01:06
was realizing that the fastest growing
01:09
companies were sort of approaching
01:10
growth in a in a different way than what
01:13
a traditional marketer would do and the
01:15
best thing I could think of to describe
01:18
how people were approaching growth was
01:20
to just got put a new name on it bring
01:21
some attention to it being really a
01:23
different sort of thing but it’s
01:25
basically rapid experimentation across
01:27
really the full customer journey to
01:30
drive sustainable growth of customers
01:32
and revenue I love that sustainable
01:35
growth of customers red and I think
01:36
that’s uh anybody’s listen to this
01:38
that’s one of the main things they
01:39
wanted to try to increase in sustained
01:41
as many customers as possible growing
01:43
revenue and I note that hacking
01:45
obviously is a term we kind of been
01:47
thrown around a lot recently with
01:49
everything from biohacking growth
01:50
hacking funnel hacking but I think those
01:52
hacks if when you really look at it
01:54
those are things that really can’t
01:56
control and and just scale a company
01:58
like crazy I know it was we’re kind of
02:01
getting started here I tell you a little
02:02
bit about the growth we’ve had here
02:04
click funnels as far as being able
02:05
tripler our user base and our revenue
02:07
over the last couple years and our goal
02:08
is the exact same things this year I
02:10
drew much kind of just dive in and I
02:12
know you
02:13
book coming out here basically hacking
02:16
you know all about hacking growth will
02:19
help it help people understand exactly
02:21
you’ve had a lot of experience it’s a
02:23
major companies amuse you vent bright
02:24
Dropbox login and if you don’t mind just
02:28
take a few minutes and tell people
02:29
understand what as a smaller middle
02:31
sized business what do they need to be
02:32
focused on to be able to do exactly what
02:35
you just said there as far as the
02:36
skating customers and growth sure yeah
02:38
so the important thing is kind of is
02:41
understanding where where the business
02:43
is at any given point sort of that the
02:45
at the stage of the business what should
02:48
you take your very limited resources
02:51
even if even a big company has limited
02:52
resources and it’s about focusing those
02:55
resources on what really matters and so
02:57
within the early days of Dropbox
02:59
eventbrite and logmein I started the
03:03
week that Dropbox launched so really
03:04
early with joined just for a six-month
03:07
period and an interim role it was all
03:09
about putting in the systems to make the
03:13
business something that could scale a
03:14
long term and so and and with with
03:17
logmein right before that I left log me
03:19
in about six months earlier and I had
03:21
run marketing from like customers 0
03:23
through the IPO filing and so got to got
03:27
to see the challenges at different
03:28
points and you know the initial point
03:30
it’s just to make sure that there’s
03:32
something that’s valuable that’s being
03:35
delivered by the product in the first
03:36
place and if you if you don’t validate
03:39
that and surprisingly a lot of companies
03:41
just you know they think that they can
03:42
they can grow despite a lack of value
03:45
and if if the value is not their growth
03:47
will not be sustainable and so that’s a
03:49
starting point for me is just make sure
03:52
that the product is something that the
03:54
market actually needs and if if not then
03:56
you want to be not focused on growth but
03:58
really on getting getting the chronic
04:00
right and then once you validated that
04:03
the product is something that the market
04:04
needs then going into a stage where you
04:07
start to figure out okay what are what
04:09
are the likely channels what can I want
04:11
to kind of charge for the product and
04:13
and building in the tracking systems and
04:17
ultimately trying to figure out you know
04:19
from somebody thinking about so you have
04:22
funnel is way funnel hacking is wet but
04:25
the title of the podcast is so
04:27
like that that ultimately it’s about
04:30
that funnel taking someone from
04:32
consideration all the way to a habitual
04:35
user of the product that really loves
04:37
the value that’s coming out of the
04:38
product and so that’s everything from
04:40
getting the messaging right initially
04:42
but making sure that that messaging
04:44
reflects what ultimately the product
04:45
makes the product valuable and then AV
04:48
testing really every step along the
04:50
funnel to make sure that you get the
04:52
friction out that so that you can
04:54
ultimately deliver the experience that
04:56
keeps people coming back and spreading
04:58
positive word-of-mouth and so I go
05:00
through it really distinct phase and a
05:01
company once I validated that the values
05:04
there where I’m what I call really
05:06
stacking the odds for growth and then
05:08
long-term I’m basically managing growth
05:12
that got across kind of all of the
05:13
levers of the funnel and focusing the
05:16
efforts of the team at any given point
05:18
on on the lever partition or activation
05:21
and all the way down to revenue and you
05:24
know pension and referral you mention
05:26
there’s three different phases that you
05:28
really kind of focus on ops ii
05:29
establishing the value first from that
05:32
value getting the right people on board
05:33
and then the next thing really was the
05:35
scalene aspect so if you don’t mind
05:37
looks like to really kind of focus first
05:39
of all on that second part of that
05:40
company cuz i know a lot of our small to
05:42
middle sized business those who are
05:43
looking at there at their funnels right
05:45
now they’re starting to make revenue
05:47
things and they’re starting to grow that
05:48
company so assuming sean that we’ve got
05:51
the right product in the right value
05:53
what’s the next thing you need to take a
05:54
look at yeah so i kind of discovered
05:57
this the hard way when i was at logmein
05:59
I I went out and said okay let’s just
06:02
grow this baby you know kind of took the
06:04
the old-fashioned approach and started
06:07
going out and building channels and
06:09
realized pretty quickly that I could
06:12
scale to maybe ten thousand dollars a
06:13
month with a with a profitable return on
06:16
investment on the channels but when I
06:18
looked at what was happening people were
06:19
signing up and never actually using the
06:21
product and so really that the next step
06:25
for me was to make sure I understood
06:28
what was preventing them yeah they
06:29
clearly had enough interest to sign up
06:31
for it but then they weren’t going
06:33
through the funnel and actually using
06:34
the product so doing some research and
06:37
they’re running experimentation to
06:38
actually get people using the product
06:41
in it took a number of months to kind of
06:43
get that just right but that freed us up
06:46
to where we could now on the same
06:47
channels of scale to ten thousand
06:49
dollars we could scale to over a million
06:51
dollars a month on customer acquisition
06:54
with a positive return on investment so
06:56
a lot of it is just kind of a be testing
06:58
and taking the friction out of that
07:00
initial user journey there’s some
07:02
messaging development that’s also really
07:03
important so understanding why users
07:06
love the product and then setting a
07:09
promise early in the in the onboarding
07:11
so that people have the right
07:13
expectations of the benefit that they’re
07:14
going to get from the product so those
07:16
those would be really kind of the two
07:17
key areas that i focus on i love it i
07:20
know that consumption is always one of
07:21
the biggest problems most people face
07:23
with any product or service I know we’ve
07:26
looked at the same thing within our own
07:27
within click bottles and we’ve seen once
07:30
a person’s been with us about two months
07:31
they’re really consuming the product
07:32
they just stick so what are some of the
07:36
things where you’re looking at can you
07:37
know client consumption what are some of
07:40
the hacks and stuff you need to be
07:41
paying attention to so yeah I think the
07:49
biggest challenge is it really kind of
07:52
depends on a business’s like in the case
07:54
of logmein we saw a number of people
07:57
that were dropping off at the download
07:59
step on the software and so originally
08:03
we just you know we just randomly did a
08:05
bunch of testing there but when we
08:06
actually asked them why did you sign up
08:08
and not download the software we found
08:11
that they were that they were basically
08:14
just not believing in the value
08:17
proposition so the value was that we had
08:20
a free version they didn’t believe it
08:21
was free and so they were dropping out
08:24
just from a credibility standpoint that
08:26
is trust the download and so once we got
08:30
enough feedback of people saying that
08:31
are our next test actually gave us about
08:35
a tripling of the conversion rate by
08:37
just giving them a choice download the
08:38
free version or download a trial of the
08:40
paid version and once they saw that
08:43
there was a choice between a free and a
08:45
paid version they knew we had a business
08:46
model and there was just a little bit
08:48
more trust there so I don’t think
08:49
there’s any real formulaic thing it’s
08:51
about knowing where people are dropping
08:53
off
08:54
trying to understand why they’re
08:56
dropping off there and then running
08:57
experiments to get a larger percentage
08:59
of people to to complete that step I
09:01
love that so she’ll did Jessica go out
09:03
survey to people or did you start trying
09:05
things so initially we started trying
09:07
things and then and then fortunately we
09:10
had their email address because they
09:11
signed up and then they dropped off so
09:13
we just sent emails to him and said why
09:15
did you sign up and not download the
09:16
software and their response to the email
09:18
was that they didn’t believe it was free
09:20
so that that’s kind of guided our
09:22
experimentation a little better oh
09:24
that’s fantastic so now that you’ve got
09:26
people who are consuming your product
09:28
and things are starting to move and he’s
09:30
not going to 10,000 you know-- month in
09:32
revenue and you’re up crossing through
09:33
that one you know 1,000,000 mr our type
09:35
of deal what are some of the main things
09:37
you start looking at as far as really
09:39
scaling a company long-term what are
09:42
some of the actions that you’re paying
09:43
attention to and need to be aware of yes
09:45
sir so at that point you start trying to
09:47
think okay how do I do this as a team
09:49
and I think that’s one of the big
09:52
breakers that Facebook and uber and some
09:55
of these really fast growing companies
09:56
they’ve figured out how to put a
09:59
cross-functional team in place that runs
10:02
the same kind of cadence of
10:04
experimentation that marketers do with
10:06
acquisition channels but they’re doing
10:08
it across the full customer journey so
10:11
whether it’s at the you know revenue
10:14
type experiments or retention and
10:16
engagement experiments or activation
10:19
experiments they’re finding where the
10:21
leverage is and the funnel and focusing
10:24
really a cross-functional team to
10:26
prioritize a number of experiments and
10:28
kind of set clear clear objectives at
10:31
that stage but they’re basically running
10:34
this growth hacking process which is
10:36
just you know something that gives them
10:38
the ability to build a backlog of ideas
10:41
and then prioritize those ideas
10:42
effectively and and ultimately you know
10:47
for a period of time maybe a month or
10:49
two months really work a point in the
10:50
funnel where where it seems like there’s
10:52
a lot of room for improvement and then
10:54
you know do a check-in after that and
10:56
figure out is there is there another
10:58
area that they need to focus in but I
11:00
think to probably the biggest difference
11:02
compared to traditional marketing is
11:04
that it’s it’s this cross-functional
11:06
growth team
11:08
that is really working across the entire
11:10
customer lifecycle rather than rather
11:13
than you know different teams and
11:15
different kind of isolated silos trying
11:18
to coordinate their efforts you know
11:20
talk more about this what do you mean
11:22
that cross-functional I looked at this
11:25
within our own organization here and you
11:28
know we’ve talked a lot about the
11:29
difference can hire a players versus B
11:31
players and really getting almost a
11:32
thirty two hundred percent increase in
11:34
output and functionality on a player
11:37
versus a be player but what do you mean
11:38
bastarz cross-functional team and then
11:41
with that I’m one more side note to that
11:42
question and that is at what point does
11:44
a company really need to start looking
11:46
at really hiring quad to grow that kind
11:49
of a team yeah so let’s go over the
11:52
cross functional team the interview if
11:54
you think about the customer journey
11:57
from when they when they first are
11:59
interested in a product a lot of times
12:01
it happens through marketing or maybe a
12:04
landing page you usually even even
12:07
external marketing and so that would be
12:09
kind of the marketing team that would be
12:10
responsible for that then a lot of the
12:14
growth levers but you know the things
12:16
that actually lead to growth would be
12:17
like that first user experience that
12:19
onboarding that takes them into the
12:21
first time they actually use the product
12:23
that tends to sit in the product team so
12:26
you have these two different groups
12:29
within the overall company that are
12:31
managing different parts of that
12:33
customer journey marketing tends to be
12:35
more experimental kind of faster
12:37
experimental where product most product
12:40
teams that I know of spend most most of
12:43
their time thinking about kind of that
12:44
long-term customer experience that
12:47
ongoing customer experience with not
12:49
nearly enough focus on the initial user
12:51
experience you might have a customer
12:54
success team mixed in there and a
12:55
customer I even even a sales team or if
13:00
maybe biz dev but you’ve got kind of
13:02
these these different teams along the
13:04
way I think the big breakthrough that
13:06
Facebook really pioneered it was that
13:08
they built a team that sits across those
13:12
organizations that’s really managing
13:14
experimentation all the way from
13:16
acquisition to activation to engagement
13:20
and retention of existing customer
13:22
is to react juez ition of people who
13:24
fall out and it’s this team that that
13:26
has marketing skills product skills
13:29
customer success skills even engineering
13:33
and user design and user experience all
13:36
working together with with analysts to
13:38
run experiments across any part of that
13:41
customer journey and being able to work
13:44
together as a as a team that comprises a
13:46
lot of those skills I think it is much
13:48
more effective a nicer reason why
13:50
facebook’s worth 400 billion dollars or
13:53
whatever their latest valuation is that
13:55
they they really pioneered that let you
13:57
know less than 10 years ago about two
13:59
thousand eight and and now what you see
14:03
is that most of the really fast Silicon
14:05
Valley companies have emulated what
14:06
they’re doing and are many of them are
14:09
experiencing similar type results but I
14:11
think that’s probably a big big part of
14:13
their success was just this this team
14:15
that can scale across that full customer
14:17
journey and run run the experimentation
14:19
across that that journey I love that
14:21
object how does the company it’s
14:23
obviously not Facebook size but a
14:25
smaller company because a lot of people
14:27
listen to this are going to be in the
14:28
startup phase to you know ten ten to
14:31
twenty thirty million dollar your
14:32
revenue is kind of where most of our
14:33
clients are true ops they’re not the
14:36
billion dollar range what works in the
14:37
main hatch that they need to be paying
14:39
attention to yeah so so again I got I’m
14:43
not sure that I would necessarily refer
14:45
to it as as a hack itself because it’s
14:49
me i’m thinking of the hack is sort of a
14:51
creative solution to a problem and so
14:54
you have to understand the problem
14:56
before before you can prescribe the
14:59
right solution through it so to me it’s
15:01
again like how do you how do you execute
15:04
this process in a smaller business a
15:07
team that’s smaller and and i think the
15:10
process looks similar but you know it
15:12
may initially start with just a single
15:14
person who’s coordinating this this
15:17
cross-functional effort and and
15:19
initially maybe just borrowing resources
15:21
from from the different groups within
15:24
the organization or you know maybe
15:25
they’re pretty dynamic themselves if
15:27
it’s only an organization of two or
15:28
three people they might be really kind
15:31
of managing that full customer journey
15:33
and and
15:35
running the experiments that they’re
15:36
able to run themselves so a lot of times
15:39
super early stage companies need pretty
15:41
dynamic people who can do a little bit
15:43
of coding a little bit of design a
15:45
little bit of copywriting and actually
15:48
able to kind of execute experiments all
15:50
the way across the minute over time
15:52
people become more specialized as the
15:54
team starts to scale but usually the
15:56
first thing that I recommend a team of
15:58
safe sub 10 people is to bring in what I
16:02
call maybe a growth manager or a growth
16:04
master where that person is is really
16:09
really trying to run to set a target of
16:12
two or three tests per week and doing
16:14
whatever it takes to run the best two or
16:16
three tests that they can run and so
16:18
that’s that’s borrow resources execute
16:20
on their own but that’s that’s the
16:21
initial part is just having a target
16:24
number of tests to run and if they find
16:26
that they’re always fighting for a
16:28
designer then maybe the first hire they
16:30
go out and make as a designer or they’re
16:32
always fighting for a developer or a
16:35
copywriter or whatever it is but that’s
16:37
if you have to build the team in
16:38
response to what’s preventing them from
16:40
running the tests but in my experience
16:43
that kind of biggest predictor of
16:44
long-term growth is just your velocity
16:47
of tests that you’re putting out there
16:49
the throughput of pests and then once
16:51
you have a good through for the test
16:53
then it becomes the quality of those
16:55
tests and the combination of quality and
16:57
throughput is jet tends to be what
17:00
drives growth obviously right tonic and
17:02
right market makes a big difference as
17:04
well sure not totally agree they own
17:06
that I think that’s it I love what
17:08
you’re just making medicine there as far
17:09
as you know what’s the biggest hurdle
17:11
and higher towards that I don’t we see
17:14
the same thing as we’ve been scaling
17:15
click follows you all of a sudden in
17:18
fact we just brought on a full-time
17:20
graphics guy so that one reason it
17:22
seemed to be the one thing that was was
17:24
the issue for us is we’ve got a lotta
17:25
crap we’re trying to do whether it’s for
17:28
social media postings more forward just
17:31
a lot of the other internal projects
17:33
that we have and we kept outsourcing a
17:35
lot of that and little using the last
17:37
literally last month just brought on a
17:39
full kind of graphics guy and it’s
17:40
amazing how much we’ve been able to it
17:42
that we we were outsourcing a little but
17:45
at this point now we’ve got a full-time
17:47
die in here we now are doing a ton
17:49
or all the time just because we know
17:51
we’ve got to hear why keep is playful so
17:52
I think that’s that’s a great great idea
17:55
yeah in the beginning I think a little
17:57
bit of outsourcing or borrowing internal
17:59
resources is good and it’s that I think
18:02
the alternative to that that I see is
18:03
that people people see this this
18:06
different approach and how well it works
18:07
for other companies and then they spend
18:09
six months trying to hide higher and
18:11
build the team and get them working
18:12
together and that’s six months of not
18:14
being able to execute it so generally my
18:17
recommendation is try to execute it with
18:19
what you’ve got and then fill in the
18:21
gaps along the way and and you’ll grow
18:23
faster and sooner doing it that way yeah
18:26
we’ve always taken the approach as
18:27
foragin to the ready fire aim approach
18:29
and it seems to work that way for us as
18:32
well so I I think that’s awesome well I
18:33
know you’ve got that a large book got
18:35
coming out here yeah tons and tons is
18:37
experienced in packing growth what what
18:42
does people going to find when they when
18:43
they get your book yeah Emma what we’re
18:46
really trying to do we we feel like that
18:48
everybody’s moving in this direction
18:49
that’s just been there’s been too much
18:51
success from these super fast-growing
18:54
companies for for people not to try to
18:57
emulate it and so what we wanted to do
18:59
was go out and study them document the
19:01
best practices just lay out a lot of the
19:03
steps for being able to do it so you
19:05
know first part of the book is really
19:07
around kind of some stories but just
19:09
still building the growth teen some of
19:11
the prerequisites that I talked about
19:12
and and just kind of be setting up the
19:16
system for managing growth and then the
19:18
second part is the playbook so how do
19:20
you hack acquisition how do you hack
19:22
activation retention monetization and
19:26
just kind of kind of starting to run the
19:29
rhythm of growth and execute the process
19:31
of growth but we we feel like this is
19:33
the first book that tries to lay out the
19:38
kind of guidebook for how to how to make
19:41
the transition because it’s it’s a big
19:43
transition for a lot of companies who
19:45
are starting from these pretty isolated
19:47
departments to trying to do something
19:49
that’s much more integrated than I think
19:51
a lot more effective I think that’s
19:53
awesome and all we’ve got we all have
19:56
things coming out about the same time I
19:58
know yours is actually the week
19:59
Russell’s book expert secret velocity
20:01
April eighteenth yours
20:02
haken growth is april twenty fifth and
20:05
it’s kind of funny see we tell similar
20:08
types of concepts in beta we were just
20:10
talking about this the other day with
20:11
regard to to clients and and really is
20:15
we take a look at clients very first
20:16
thing obviously from a funnel standpoint
20:18
that we always look at is what your what
20:19
your acquisitions i don’t how you can
20:21
acquire those come those customers and
20:23
once you’ve got those customers then how
20:25
are you going to send them and basically
20:27
don’t sell them more different things
20:29
and then off to the last thing is more
20:30
of a moderation and frequencies are how
20:32
often can they get how often would they
20:34
buy from you so i love love that idea
20:37
and again back in growth for a company
20:40
whether you are just starting or if
20:43
you’re already been scaling i think it’s
20:45
some of the main things you’re right
20:46
everybody these days is seeing what’s
20:48
happening Silicon Valley they’re seeing
20:50
what some of these major companies are
20:51
going through and I think you know a lot
20:53
of the technology days allows us to have
20:56
this type of rapid growth and expansion
20:59
that wasn’t available years ago yep yeah
21:03
it’s a lot of collaboration a lot of
21:05
measurement but i think i think it
21:08
starts with just just being able to
21:10
study the ones that are doing it really
21:12
well and they’ve they they have the hard
21:15
part which was pioneering a lot of this
21:17
and everything from you know what is the
21:19
key metric that you that you use to
21:21
manage the full team having a single
21:23
success metric makes a really big
21:25
difference on getting everyone on the
21:26
same page and then and then how do you
21:28
how do you drive that cooperation
21:31
between these different groups it’s it’s
21:33
a big cultural transition that companies
21:36
need to go through but i think the
21:37
alternative is that it’s going to be
21:40
really hard to grow if you don’t start
21:43
to start to have a fully integrated team
21:46
and process across that customer journey
21:48
and today it’s still something that you
21:51
can get ahead but i think in a few years
21:54
it’s going to be something that it
21:55
becomes a necessity for survival I think
21:59
it’s fantastic I what are some of the
22:01
tips as kind of get you know close to
22:03
wrapping things up here or any tips or
22:05
secrets you want to make sure that the
22:06
our funnel hacking community learns from
22:08
you yeah so I would say a few so one is
22:12
this idea of a single metric it’s
22:14
referred to as a northstar metric
22:16
thing tied to aggregation of customer
22:19
value so defining how a customer gets
22:21
value from your product and measuring
22:23
your success on expansion of value is is
22:26
a key to driving sustainable growth and
22:29
then velocity of testing is the biggest
22:32
predictor that I found in being able to
22:34
drive the short-term and long-term
22:37
growth if you’re not testing you’re not
22:38
learning so give yourself targets around
22:41
the number of tests that you run and
22:43
then I guess the other piece would be
22:45
think about a single person who manages
22:47
that cross-functional cooperation who
22:50
gets everyone on that same page and we
22:53
actually have a training course that we
22:55
launched recently called the growth
22:56
master training course that is part part
23:00
of growth hackers where it really it’s a
23:03
new skill set that I think it’s pretty
23:05
distinct from what’s out there it’s
23:07
project management its analytical but
23:09
it’s it’s something that that requires a
23:12
different skill set to get these
23:13
companies teams working together to
23:15
understand this process and get everyone
23:17
working together to execute the process
23:19
but it’s powerful and I think if people
23:22
will kind of move in different speeds to
23:24
get there but I’m seeing everyone from
23:26
l’oreal get training at lauriol pretty
23:29
recently around this and you know down
23:31
to little tiny companies and everything
23:33
in between people are trying to figure
23:36
it out and the good news is that there’s
23:38
a lot more resources today then then
23:40
there’s ever been before so once you
23:42
make up your mind to figure it out you
23:43
can you can do it with the resources
23:44
that are out there now that’s awesome
23:47
Sean can you give me an example what a
23:48
northstar metric might be yeah so for
23:51
for uber the their Northstar metric is
23:55
rides taken so every time a ride happens
23:59
in the uber system drivers get value and
24:02
writers get values so they measure their
24:04
overall success rate in the expansion of
24:07
total rides taken very similar with the
24:10
Airbnb s which is night nights booked so
24:14
number of nights that people stay in a
24:16
property that’s best value for the for
24:19
the guests and for the hosts for
24:22
facebook it’s made a little more simple
24:25
which is monthly active users so they
24:28
know they’re really just a plat
24:30
forum for bringing people together and
24:32
so they know that it’s not new people
24:36
who set up profiles because if they
24:37
never use those profiles going forward
24:40
then then they’re not getting value from
24:42
the system so for them aggregated value
24:44
is just the number of people on Facebook
24:48
every month that come and participate in
24:50
facebook is how they measure value so I
24:53
don’t think there’s necessarily a right
24:54
answer for each business but you have to
24:56
start with understanding what is the
24:58
value of the product and how do I
25:00
measure an expansion of the aggregate
25:03
value across my customer base over time
25:05
and I if you’re if you’re optimizing
25:07
your efforts long-term around that
25:08
you’re much more likely to retain
25:10
customers and it’s very hard to grow
25:13
long term if you’re not retaining the
25:14
customers that you already have you know
25:16
I’ve seen that I’ve had this
25:18
conversation with a lot of other a lot
25:20
of our inner circle members and things
25:22
who are at that point where they’ve
25:23
really scale their companies quite a bit
25:24
and the main thing that they start
25:26
looking at it it’s customer churn and
25:28
finding ways of lowering that churn and
25:31
really creating a much higher long-term
25:34
lifetime value for that customers I
25:36
think that’s an awesome awesome idea
25:38
yeah you can spend more to acquire them
25:40
once you’ve delivered value they’re much
25:42
more likely to have word of mouth and
25:45
recommend your product to others and
25:47
yeah most of the companies that like
25:49
Dropbox and log me in their blood moons
25:52
about five billion dollar value company
25:53
now dropbox 10 doing it on their last
25:55
round and when i left those companies
25:58
yeah eighty percent or more of the
26:01
people are coming in through just pure
26:02
word-of-mouth not even not even sort of
26:05
manipulated word of mouth with
26:06
incentives and other things and so that
26:08
word of mouth is a function of a great
26:10
experience with the product so you
26:12
better understand that great experience
26:13
and maximize the number of people who
26:15
have that experience you’re going to
26:17
unlock this much more powerful engine of
26:19
growth than simply paid acquisition or
26:22
social or some of these other things
26:24
that can feed the flywheel but it’s
26:26
really hard for those things to be the
26:29
flywheel yes I understand that for sure
26:33
John anything else before we close
26:36
things up no that’s hopefully that’s
26:39
helpful for people I think it definitely
26:41
so how do they get the book so
26:44
I can go to growth hacker com so very
26:46
similar businesses grow up hackers with
26:48
an F growth hacker com is is a page that
26:52
lays out where you can buy the book and
26:54
you have different different types of
26:56
packages that we offer if you buy
26:57
multiple books that sort of thing if
26:58
your company you want your team to have
27:00
it so or you can just go in search
27:03
amazon or barnes and noble and you’ll
27:05
you’ll find it called hacking growth
27:06
written by myself and morgan brown
27:09
fantastic well sure I really appreciate
27:12
your time today thank you so much I
27:13
thanks they’ve appreciate you having me
27:16
on thanks for listening to puddle hacker
27:17
radio podcast if you’d like to be
27:19
notified any time we release a new
27:20
episode just subscribe over at pronto
27:23
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27:25
we’d love to send you a free gift you
27:27
can find that free gift at funnel hacker
27:30
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27:34
thing is we love giving away cars so if
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you like access to a free dream car all
27:39
you have to do is go to funnel hacker
27:41
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27:43
you’ll get all the details thanks again
27:46
for listening

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